Gecht (Berdichev) / ГЕХТ (Бердичев)

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Gecht (Berdichev) / ГЕХТ (Бердичев)

#1 Сообщение LEOGECHT » 21 июл 2016, 15:46

LEO Gecht,
N.Y.
Good morning
I am looking for Berdichev birth records circa 1890 1900,Where can I find them
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#2 Сообщение Дмитрий Широчин » 21 июл 2016, 16:14

As I know the metrical books 1890-1900 for Berdichev Jewish Society were lost. You can try to get the information about the Berdichev jews in the 1897 All Russia Census. The files of this Census for Berdichev are in ДАКО (The State Archives of Kiev Province), f. 384, inv. 15
http://j-roots.info/
"Мои": Гойхман (Рашков), Марголис (Двинск, Вильна), Устрайх (Витебская губерния), Тейтельбаум (Полоцк), Рапопорт (Лепельский уезд, Двинск), Кельман (Кишинев)

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Gecht (Berdichev) / ГЕХТ (Бердичев)

#3 Сообщение LEOGECHT » 21 июл 2016, 17:37

Dmitry!
Thank You for quick response. I am looking for particular record. My grandfather Itsik (Itsko,Isaak )Gecht was born there in 1900. His father (Itsko Gecht) died before his birth. His mother soon after. He was raised by his grandfather. The first name of his mother lost in time. Last name Eisenstein.
I recently found that grandfather had an older sister Golda Gecht ,who was taken by her uncles on mother side and emigrated to USA. I located their great grates but they don't have any info. Ellis Island records do not have this info either.
You or any other person can answer in Russian ,I can read but cannot write.
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#4 Сообщение Файнгольд Татьяна » 21 июл 2016, 18:57

Ellis Island records:



1 Gecht, Abram Berdiczew, Russia 20 1888-1889 1909
2 Gecht, Berke Berdicszw, Russia 1 1906-1907 1908
3 Gecht, Brucha Berditschen, Russia 18 1890-1891 1909
4 Gecht, Ferje Berdicszw, Russia 3 1904-1905 1908
5 Gecht, Golde Berdicszw, Russia 25 1882-1883 1908
ФАЙНГОЛЬД
КАМЕНЕЦ-ПОДОЛЬСКИЙ
м.СМОТРИЧ

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Гехт (Бердичев) / Gecht (Berdichev)

#5 Сообщение LEOGECHT » 21 июл 2016, 21:08

Thank You
According to info I have, Abram was cousin of Itsko' father . 2 years ago I made contact with great great niece of Abram .Her story of Abram was posted on Google. If You need that story and our e mal exchange I can provide. Others probably more distant relatives.Golde on this list was way to old .
Our Golde was born in 1891 came as a teenager , married Max Helligman lived and died in St Luis in 1970. I cannot locate her desendents. Something else popped in my mind Golde was born in 1891 , Itsko in 1900 there probably were other children in between.

Question remains: First name of Mrs.Itsko Gecht nee Eisenstein
Any suggestions?
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#6 Сообщение Файнгольд Татьяна » 21 июл 2016, 22:04

LEOGECHT писал(а):Источник цитаты Thank You
According to info I have, Abram was cousin of Itsko' father ,others probably more distant relatives.Golde on this list was way to old .
Our Golde was born in 1891 came as a teenager , married Max Helligman lived and died in St Luis in 1970. I cannot locate her desendents. Something else popped in my mind Golde was born in 1891 , Itsko in 1900 there probably were other children in between.

Question remains: First name of Mrs.Itsko Gecht nee Eisenstein
Any suggestions?

You have to read Passenger Records in Manifest.
ФАЙНГОЛЬД
КАМЕНЕЦ-ПОДОЛЬСКИЙ
м.СМОТРИЧ

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#7 Сообщение LEOGECHT » 21 июл 2016, 22:26

Thank you
Who"s record? do they list names of parents for new arrivals?

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#8 Сообщение anno_nin » 21 июл 2016, 23:36

They write 2 names: the person, to whom the passenger come and the person, left in Russia. And the relation to these people. Frequently they are one of the parents, wife, husband, sister or brother.
btw, if You can read in Russian - check this theme and attachments: viewtopic.php?f=113&t=3975
maybe You will find something interesting for Your research?

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#9 Сообщение michael_frm_jrslm » 22 июл 2016, 01:28

LEOGECHT писал(а):Источник цитаты Our Golde was born in 1891 came as a teenager , married Max Helligman lived and died in St Luis in 1970. I cannot locate her desendents.

There is a lot of information about Max and Goldie Helligman family from St Luis at Ancestry.com, including 1920, 1930, 1949 US census lists, a link to Max and Golda gravestone photo, and a photo of Max's broad family (Max, his siblings, their spouses including Max's wife Golda and their children including two of Max's children and grandchildren including Max's grandson,
There are also about a dozen family trees at the same site (Ancestry.com) which include Max and Golda Helligman. If you are a paid subscriber of this site you can try to contact those trees managers and ask them about the source of their information. Maybe some of theese trees managers hav contacts with Max's descendants.

But are you sure this family is indeed related to you?
I ask this question because Golda's maiden name is listed as Eisenstein and not Gecht. It could be a mistake there but also a misidentification by you.
That is if you know that Itsko Gekht had a sister named golda who lived in St Louis and married Max Gecht and you know this from your father or any other family member then this is a correct identification.
But if you know this from your own research say, in the Web, it could be false identification.

But I think that this is indeed your grandfather's sister.

Now, what can you do in your further search?

First, you can try to obtain Golda's death certificate. There is a good chance (though not 100%) that there is her father's name and surname and even her mother's maiden name there.

Second. you can try to find a private researcher in Kiev who will look through the 1897 Russian Empire census list from Berdichev. (These lists are NOT available on-line.)
The researcher will find the census list of Golda's family (Itsik was born after 1897 but Golda was born before.)
But this can be really expensive since there are several thousands of such lists from Berdichev, maybe even tens of thousands, and all these lists should be seen.
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#10 Сообщение anno_nin » 22 июл 2016, 09:32

https://www.obd-memorial.ru/html/info.htm?id=73698010
Geht Abram Shayevich (1924, Berdichev - 22.12.1943, disappeared)
https://www.obd-memorial.ru/html/info.htm?id=54176429
Geht Alexandr Arkadyevich (1908, Berdichev - 04.08.1944, killed at war)

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#11 Сообщение michael_frm_jrslm » 22 июл 2016, 12:48

michael_frm_jrslm писал(а):Источник цитаты But this can be really expensive since there are several thousands of such lists from Berdichev, maybe even tens of thousands, and all these lists should be seen.

It founds out that the situation is much better.
One of our forum members, Борис Финкельштейн, made a list of Jewish families from 1897 Berdichev census.
The list is not complete because that member did not finish his look-up yet, (Only some 80 folders of the total 103 folders were viewed. But the list for those viewed is complete.)

For each surname you can find in which document folder ("архивное дело") the correspondent lists can be found in the Kiev archive. So your researcher will need to look through less than a dozen of specific folders (each contains several hundreds of lists).

The list of all Jewish families from 1897 Berdichev census is attached to this posting: viewtopic.php?t=3975
For your surnames:
Gecht (Russian: Гехт) families can be found in the folders No 10, 19, 21,51
Eisenstein (Russian: Айзенштейн) families can be found in the folders No 6, 37, 51, 57, 68

If your relatives are not found in those folders than either your researcher will have to look in the remaining 20 folders or you may wait till Борис Финкельштейн ends his look-up (I don't know when does he plan to resume it, if at all. You may ask him directly.)


(I hope that my poor English is still enough for you to understand what I explain). :)
Моз, Либерзон - Двинск (Даугавпилс) до 1915
Левин - Вилкомир, Двинск (Даугавпилс) до 1915
Каган - Двинск (Даугавпилс) до 1915 и Солоки (Салакас, Литва)
Рубинштейн - Краснополье Могилевской губ.
Златин, Данович - Могилев

по линии жены:
Берковиц/Беркович- Рига до 1917
Якобсон - Митава (Елгава) в 19-м в.
Рогацкин - Витебск, Вязьма, Свердловск
Романовский - Вязьма, Свердловск
Гершкович, Дегтярев - Челябинск до 1917
Литвак, Дизик - Умань
Овчарек - Варшава
Болотин, Медведев - Клинцы, Сураж

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ГЕХТ / ЭЙЗЕНШТЕЙН (Бердичев) / Gecht /Eisenstein (Berdichev)

#12 Сообщение LEOGECHT » 22 июл 2016, 16:39

michael_frm_jrslm писал(а):Источник цитаты


Michael
I am 100% sure Heligman is her married name . As to the maiden name -maybe she adapted her Uncle name? I hoped to resolve this problem
true one of Eisenstein's we located through DNK . But he is way to young and after couple of e mail exchanges disappeared. As to the Max Gecht
Abram Gecht had a brother Max. Both of them were born in Berdichev.
I will try to contact Mr Finkelshteyn.
Again thanks for your prompt attention
Leo Gecht

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ГЕХТ / ЭЙЗЕНШТЕЙН (Бердичев). Gecht /Eisenstein (Berdichev)

#13 Сообщение LEOGECHT » 22 июл 2016, 21:47

Using your suggestion I became a member of Ancestry. There true pure luck I connected to knowledgeable person and we almost solved that riddle .
Result ( cross my fingers ) was a complete surprise to what II knew about my family.
Upon confirmation I will post results
leo gecht

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ГЕХТ / ЭЙЗЕНШТЕЙН (Бердичев). Gecht /Eisenstein (Berdichev)

#14 Сообщение oztech » 22 июл 2016, 21:50

LEOGECHT писал(а):Источник цитаты Upon confirmation I will post results

Good luck!
Григорий

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ГЕХТ / ЭЙЗЕНШТЕЙН (Бердичев). Gecht /Eisenstein (Berdichev)

#15 Сообщение LEOGECHT » 23 июл 2016, 17:55

Good morning!
Mystery of grandfather sister was solved.
According to nephew of her husband and to research done on ancestry we established that Goldie was born in 1891 and
emigrated in 1904 with Eisenstein's.She assumed their surname or probably was adopted by Eisenstein .She met and married her husband Max Heligman ,who came with his family in 1905.She died in 1970 . According to the person I had conversation with, Her grandchildren are unaware of this story, but were polite enough not to deny. By the way this person was sure that Eisenstein was her real last name, but then agreed with me that she was born Goldie Gecht
That's mean I have try to locate records from Berdichev. Any Thoughts
Leo Gecht

Доброе утро!
Раскрылась тайна имени сестры дедушки.
Племянник ее мужа и исследование на ancestry показали, что Голди родилась в 1891 и эмигрировала в 1904 с семьей Эйзенштейн. Она записалась под их фамилией или, возможно, они ее удочерили. Она познакомилась с Максом Хелигманом, прибывшим в 1905. Она умерла в 1970. Ее внуки не знали ее настоящей фамилии.
Это значит, что я могу попробовать найти записи о семье дедушки по Бердичеву.

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ГЕХТ (Бердичев). Gecht (Berdichev)

#16 Сообщение LEOGECHT » 23 июл 2016, 19:04

To Boris Finkelshteyn
Do You have any knowledge of birth records for Goldie Gecht, born 1891 and Itsko or Isaak Gecht born 1900 both in Berdichev
Please translate and forward to Mr.Finkelshteyn ,I don't know how ?

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ГЕХТ (Бердичев). Gecht (Berdichev)

#17 Сообщение anno_nin » 23 июл 2016, 19:30

According to the list of the Berdichev family names in 1897, made by Boris Finkelstein, the Family name Geht found 4 times in:
Fund 384, op.15, folder 10, 19, 21, 51
It is a good chance, that at least one of these families - your relatives.

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ГЕХТ (Бердичев). Gecht (Berdichev)

#18 Сообщение LEOGECHT » 26 июл 2016, 17:24

As I was instructed I sent an e mail to Kiev Dear Sir or Madam

My name is Leonid Gecht. I am looking for information regarding my relatives from berdichev


Fund 384 op 15 folders 10,19,21,51 Last name Гехт

folders 6,37,51,57,68 Last name Айзенштейн

Need photocopies only.

With a deep respect for Your work

Leonid Gecht

Received following response :
Any reason why@
Hello!

We recommend to you to connect with the State Archives of Zhytomyr Oblast.

State Archives of Zhytomyr Oblast.
Address: 2/20, Ohrimova Gora Str., Zhitomir, 10003 (Building 1);
3 st. Zamkova Str., (Building 2);
Tel / Fax: (0412) 42-48-00;
E-mail: archive_zt@arch.gov.ua
Web: archive.zt.ua

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ГЕХТ (Бердичев). Gecht (Berdichev)

#19 Сообщение michael_frm_jrslm » 26 июл 2016, 18:39

LEOGECHT писал(а):Источник цитаты As I was instructed I sent an e mail to Kiev Dear Sir or Madam

My name is Leonid Gecht. I am looking for information regarding my relatives from berdichev


Fund 384 op 15 folders 10,19,21,51 Last name Гехт

folders 6,37,51,57,68 Last name Айзенштейн

.....

Received following response :
....

We recommend to you to connect with the State Archives of Zhytomyr Oblast.

State Archives of Zhytomyr Oblast.
Address: ...

This is because you didn't write them what exactly you need (1897 census lists).
So they supposed you are looking for metric records books or something like that because 99% of genealogy requests are about metric records and revision (not census!) lists.
The documents of such kind are held in the archives according to the modern administrative division.
Since Berdichev now belongs to Zhitomir Oblast you were re-directed to Zhitomir.

But you need another kind of documents which are held in Kiev and we know this for sure.

So you should write something like this (stressing that the needed documents are held in Kiev):

"I need copies (scans) of 1897 All-Russia census lists related to my ancestors from Berdichev.
I know for sure that these lists are held in your archive (The State Archives of Kiev Oblast) though today Berdichev belongs to another Oblast.
I know that the lists I am looking for are in the following folders:
1. For my relatives with the surname Гехт - Fund 384 inventory 15 folders 10,19,21,51 (Фонд 384 оп. 15 дд. 10,19,21,51)
2. For my relatives with the surname Айзенштейн - Fund 384 inventory 15 folders 6,37,51,57,68 (Фонд 384 оп. 15 дд. 6,37,51,57,68)
I agree to pay for the look-up of the folders mentioned above and for the scans of the relevant pages.
"
Моз, Либерзон - Двинск (Даугавпилс) до 1915
Левин - Вилкомир, Двинск (Даугавпилс) до 1915
Каган - Двинск (Даугавпилс) до 1915 и Солоки (Салакас, Литва)
Рубинштейн - Краснополье Могилевской губ.
Златин, Данович - Могилев

по линии жены:
Берковиц/Беркович- Рига до 1917
Якобсон - Митава (Елгава) в 19-м в.
Рогацкин - Витебск, Вязьма, Свердловск
Романовский - Вязьма, Свердловск
Гершкович, Дегтярев - Челябинск до 1917
Литвак, Дизик - Умань
Овчарек - Варшава
Болотин, Медведев - Клинцы, Сураж

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ГЕХТ (Бердичев). Gecht (Berdichev)

#20 Сообщение LEOGECHT » 26 июл 2016, 18:57

Thank You!
I will mail correct version.
Does that mean that Zhitomir archive have marriage certificates and birthday records for the period after 1920


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